Discussion:
[Crystal-core] Remaking of CC characters.
Anders Wisur
2006-11-02 14:14:20 UTC
Permalink
I am currently dooing alot of school work, but also working on a human
character for CC, now today I looked at the present characters, I gave
jorrit the original nastyalien I in the first place uploaded to SVN,
and now it works, got no idea wht happened the first time. But now it
works at least... Now second I looked at the flesh spider and the
scorpion-ant... I think this is ok for concept art, but I have a few
remarks that needs to be solved.

SCORPION ANT:

1. Good concept art, but we need to remake it, but then in it's
considered IDLE pose, so the change of pose is less dramatic than it
is now.


2. 464 tri's, that is ok....for a game from 2000 :/ at least if it
will be in the scize it is now, although i think we should instead of
making it more detailed, making it smaller, i would say this should be
a 20CM high creature. But still we need more DETAIL, this is a little
creature, but we need detail nontheless. normalmap and more geometry.

3 Logic of the alien: Does it have any defence stuff on it's back?
Spikes, venomous hair...? Some poison liquid it can shoot at you? or
just shells? Also mouth, what does it eat? Is it attacking you or is
it a neutral alien, as the mouth is fairly non flesh eating. Maybe it
shoul be a food animal for larger animals? Also why no feets? just
pointy legs, makes no sense to me? Other questions are, where does it
live? why does it live there? What does it eat? Things like that goes
out to all aliens, if it lives in caves, then eyes are not good, but
other senses? And it will be attracted to light, it will also have a
fairly hard skin? And be a good climber? And eed feets with good grip,
not like these... So we need to think of all these stuff before
designing the new one.

4. Pose of the alien is good when it is linked to the armature as it
is now, as Amir said it was much more realistic than using all the
energy on standing up. So i agree with him, and let's pose it like it
is now, but let the model be like that in the beginning.

5. Abilities of the creature, you should be able to kick it in game.
kick like a football? Step on? Make the game do something more funny
than just shooting it. It would also be possible to bring out 10+ at
the time of these creatures, and they should be fast moving. I would
say 15-20km/h , and not very deadly.

Just some general issues we need to sort out before continnuing with
making a betetr vesion of this.

FLESH SPIDER:

Most of the same goes out to this alien, but here I wonder how that
big eye does any good, he can't see anything but the sky with it? Why
is it there, and how does he protects it? Looks like a very weak
point, one shot and it is dead. Again texturng and detail needs to be
heavily improved.... Look at the models from Eroroman, that is how i
want CC to look. The nastyalien detail is amazing ;) I want ot bring
this up to about 2000 tri's, 1298 is ok, but not good enough. We need
more detail! Also what is the size of it???

Next is the resembellence to earth spiders... could this have 10 legs?
6 legs?7 even... why does an eathly spider live on an alien planet? I
love the idea, and i will keep the concept, but maybe we could
alienate it a bit? Make it different? Also we ned to fill in a
character sheet for every alien, where it lives, nd why does he live
there. Then we need to adapt the alien to the needs he need in such an
environment.


Alot of the same stuff for both aliens, but first of all i would need
to think of the logics of the alien before making them. I like the
concepts, but this is not finished models.


I want as many replies as possible, at least from the creators of the
aliens, and please feel free to comment on every one of the questions
i asked here, i asked alot of them, because i want answers to produce
the final and optimised versions ;)

Greetings,
Anders Wisur
Anders Wisur
2006-11-02 14:23:36 UTC
Permalink
www.crystalkeep.com/7thsea/rules/Blank%20Character.pdf

Here is a character shet I found, ofcourse maritial status is not any
concern of ours for the aliens, but if you could be able to answr some
of this, it will help you alot when designing the alien later on, I
will make one for every model i make, and also have consisting and
good concept drawing from three angles before modeling. Will make
everything alot easier.

Greetings
Post by Anders Wisur
I am currently dooing alot of school work, but also working on a human
character for CC, now today I looked at the present characters, I gave
jorrit the original nastyalien I in the first place uploaded to SVN,
and now it works, got no idea wht happened the first time. But now it
works at least... Now second I looked at the flesh spider and the
scorpion-ant... I think this is ok for concept art, but I have a few
remarks that needs to be solved.
1. Good concept art, but we need to remake it, but then in it's
considered IDLE pose, so the change of pose is less dramatic than it
is now.
2. 464 tri's, that is ok....for a game from 2000 :/ at least if it
will be in the scize it is now, although i think we should instead of
making it more detailed, making it smaller, i would say this should be
a 20CM high creature. But still we need more DETAIL, this is a little
creature, but we need detail nontheless. normalmap and more geometry.
3 Logic of the alien: Does it have any defence stuff on it's back?
Spikes, venomous hair...? Some poison liquid it can shoot at you? or
just shells? Also mouth, what does it eat? Is it attacking you or is
it a neutral alien, as the mouth is fairly non flesh eating. Maybe it
shoul be a food animal for larger animals? Also why no feets? just
pointy legs, makes no sense to me? Other questions are, where does it
live? why does it live there? What does it eat? Things like that goes
out to all aliens, if it lives in caves, then eyes are not good, but
other senses? And it will be attracted to light, it will also have a
fairly hard skin? And be a good climber? And eed feets with good grip,
not like these... So we need to think of all these stuff before
designing the new one.
4. Pose of the alien is good when it is linked to the armature as it
is now, as Amir said it was much more realistic than using all the
energy on standing up. So i agree with him, and let's pose it like it
is now, but let the model be like that in the beginning.
5. Abilities of the creature, you should be able to kick it in game.
kick like a football? Step on? Make the game do something more funny
than just shooting it. It would also be possible to bring out 10+ at
the time of these creatures, and they should be fast moving. I would
say 15-20km/h , and not very deadly.
Just some general issues we need to sort out before continnuing with
making a betetr vesion of this.
Most of the same goes out to this alien, but here I wonder how that
big eye does any good, he can't see anything but the sky with it? Why
is it there, and how does he protects it? Looks like a very weak
point, one shot and it is dead. Again texturng and detail needs to be
heavily improved.... Look at the models from Eroroman, that is how i
want CC to look. The nastyalien detail is amazing ;) I want ot bring
this up to about 2000 tri's, 1298 is ok, but not good enough. We need
more detail! Also what is the size of it???
Next is the resembellence to earth spiders... could this have 10 legs?
6 legs?7 even... why does an eathly spider live on an alien planet? I
love the idea, and i will keep the concept, but maybe we could
alienate it a bit? Make it different? Also we ned to fill in a
character sheet for every alien, where it lives, nd why does he live
there. Then we need to adapt the alien to the needs he need in such an
environment.
Alot of the same stuff for both aliens, but first of all i would need
to think of the logics of the alien before making them. I like the
concepts, but this is not finished models.
I want as many replies as possible, at least from the creators of the
aliens, and please feel free to comment on every one of the questions
i asked here, i asked alot of them, because i want answers to produce
the final and optimised versions ;)
Greetings,
Anders Wisur
Amir Taaki
2006-11-02 22:15:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anders Wisur
www.crystalkeep.com/7thsea/rules/Blank%20Character.pdf
Here is a character shet I found, ofcourse maritial status is not any
concern of ours for the aliens, but if you could be able to answr some
of this, it will help you alot when designing the alien later on, I
will make one for every model i make, and also have consisting and
good concept drawing from three angles before modeling. Will make
everything alot easier.
Well the metadata tool was in part supposed to address these concerns, but no
one used it... Don't know whether you can/want to enforce this on people.

I like the needing a concept drawing idea though, but not from 3 angles- thats
far too OTT. Just a diagonal or front facing concept should do.
Post by Anders Wisur
Greetings
Post by Anders Wisur
I am currently dooing alot of school work, but also working on a human
character for CC, now today I looked at the present characters, I gave
jorrit the original nastyalien I in the first place uploaded to SVN,
and now it works, got no idea wht happened the first time. But now it
works at least... Now second I looked at the flesh spider and the
scorpion-ant... I think this is ok for concept art, but I have a few
remarks that needs to be solved.
1. Good concept art, but we need to remake it, but then in it's
considered IDLE pose, so the change of pose is less dramatic than it
is now.
2. 464 tri's, that is ok....for a game from 2000 :/ at least if it
will be in the scize it is now, although i think we should instead of
making it more detailed, making it smaller, i would say this should be
a 20CM high creature. But still we need more DETAIL, this is a little
creature, but we need detail nontheless. normalmap and more geometry.
3 Logic of the alien: Does it have any defence stuff on it's back?
Spikes, venomous hair...? Some poison liquid it can shoot at you? or
just shells? Also mouth, what does it eat? Is it attacking you or is
it a neutral alien, as the mouth is fairly non flesh eating. Maybe it
shoul be a food animal for larger animals? Also why no feets? just
pointy legs, makes no sense to me? Other questions are, where does it
live? why does it live there? What does it eat? Things like that goes
out to all aliens, if it lives in caves, then eyes are not good, but
other senses? And it will be attracted to light, it will also have a
fairly hard skin? And be a good climber? And eed feets with good grip,
not like these... So we need to think of all these stuff before
designing the new one.
4. Pose of the alien is good when it is linked to the armature as it
is now, as Amir said it was much more realistic than using all the
energy on standing up. So i agree with him, and let's pose it like it
is now, but let the model be like that in the beginning.
5. Abilities of the creature, you should be able to kick it in game.
kick like a football? Step on? Make the game do something more funny
than just shooting it. It would also be possible to bring out 10+ at
the time of these creatures, and they should be fast moving. I would
say 15-20km/h , and not very deadly.
Just some general issues we need to sort out before continnuing with
making a betetr vesion of this.
Most of the same goes out to this alien, but here I wonder how that
big eye does any good, he can't see anything but the sky with it? Why
is it there, and how does he protects it? Looks like a very weak
point, one shot and it is dead. Again texturng and detail needs to be
heavily improved.... Look at the models from Eroroman, that is how i
want CC to look. The nastyalien detail is amazing ;) I want ot bring
this up to about 2000 tri's, 1298 is ok, but not good enough. We need
more detail! Also what is the size of it???
Next is the resembellence to earth spiders... could this have 10 legs?
6 legs?7 even... why does an eathly spider live on an alien planet? I
love the idea, and i will keep the concept, but maybe we could
alienate it a bit? Make it different? Also we ned to fill in a
character sheet for every alien, where it lives, nd why does he live
there. Then we need to adapt the alien to the needs he need in such an
environment.
Alot of the same stuff for both aliens, but first of all i would need
to think of the logics of the alien before making them. I like the
concepts, but this is not finished models.
I want as many replies as possible, at least from the creators of the
aliens, and please feel free to comment on every one of the questions
i asked here, i asked alot of them, because i want answers to produce
the final and optimised versions ;)
Greetings,
Anders Wisur
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Amir Taaki
2006-11-02 22:09:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anders Wisur
I am currently dooing alot of school work, but also working on a human
character for CC, now today I looked at the present characters, I gave
jorrit the original nastyalien I in the first place uploaded to SVN,
and now it works, got no idea wht happened the first time. But now it
works at least... Now second I looked at the flesh spider and the
scorpion-ant... I think this is ok for concept art, but I have a few
remarks that needs to be solved.
1. Good concept art, but we need to remake it, but then in it's
considered IDLE pose, so the change of pose is less dramatic than it
is now.
2. 464 tri's, that is ok....for a game from 2000 :/ at least if it
will be in the scize it is now, although i think we should instead of
making it more detailed, making it smaller, i would say this should be
a 20CM high creature. But still we need more DETAIL, this is a little
creature, but we need detail nontheless. normalmap and more geometry.
Agreed. And can we fix on tri sizes and material sizes for models?
Post by Anders Wisur
3 Logic of the alien: Does it have any defence stuff on it's back?
Spikes, venomous hair...? Some poison liquid it can shoot at you? or
just shells? Also mouth, what does it eat? Is it attacking you or is
it a neutral alien, as the mouth is fairly non flesh eating. Maybe it
shoul be a food animal for larger animals? Also why no feets? just
pointy legs, makes no sense to me?
Whats wrong with pointy legs? Good for navigating spiky terrain where you can
cut feet ;)
Post by Anders Wisur
Other questions are, where does it
live? why does it live there? What does it eat? Things like that goes
out to all aliens, if it lives in caves, then eyes are not good, but
other senses? And it will be attracted to light, it will also have a
fairly hard skin? And be a good climber? And eed feets with good grip,
not like these... So we need to think of all these stuff before
designing the new one.
I just want to say, can't we please drop the insect only stuff? I think
general monsters would be much cooler.

You broke the rule with nastyalien. Don't be afraid to do it for the
others!!! ;) I love prehistoric creatures because they look so cool and
different to today but they are practical (in that they make sense).

Look at the stuff here:
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70010
We could even contact the author and ask if we can model his concepts for
cc :) If not, I'm sure they're a good resource still.

Just get a prehistoric encyclopedia and look at all the wicked creatures that
existed (not only dinosaurs) and the plethora of offensive body parts! Don't
tell me that isn't cool.

Also another thing griping me about cc is that the aliens are too small. The
scale I saw you using for nastyalien looks rather puny- I could probably just
smash its head with a crowbar to shut it up. Make the aliens big big bigger
unless they are cannon fodder.

Thirdly I think the plot may be a bit cliched, so it could be a point to look
for some story writers rather than leaving it up to programmers/artists... I
can pick out many points which make the game as it is atm fit into sci-fi
genre nicely, and many more elements reminding me of other games. Designing a
solid game means you should have some sort of a solid idea of the plot at
first. I'm not claiming to know any better, just that the sound of it reminds
me of many sci-fi films I've seen before.

Imagine what its like when you pitch the story in one line to someone...

These may help:

http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/forum.asp?forum_id=32
http://flare.solareclipse.net/cgi2/ultimatebb.cgi?

Don't take my critique too harshly, just looking for faults.
Post by Anders Wisur
4. Pose of the alien is good when it is linked to the armature as it
is now, as Amir said it was much more realistic than using all the
energy on standing up. So i agree with him, and let's pose it like it
is now, but let the model be like that in the beginning.
5. Abilities of the creature, you should be able to kick it in game.
kick like a football? Step on? Make the game do something more funny
than just shooting it. It would also be possible to bring out 10+ at
the time of these creatures, and they should be fast moving. I would
say 15-20km/h , and not very deadly.
Just some general issues we need to sort out before continnuing with
making a betetr vesion of this.
Most of the same goes out to this alien, but here I wonder how that
big eye does any good, he can't see anything but the sky with it?
No one said its an eye. Could be a fake detterent like the butterflies with
eyes painted on to them.
Post by Anders Wisur
Why is it there, and how does he protects it? Looks like a very weak
point, one shot and it is dead. Again texturng and detail needs to be
heavily improved.... Look at the models from Eroroman, that is how i
want CC to look. The nastyalien detail is amazing ;) I want ot bring
this up to about 2000 tri's, 1298 is ok, but not good enough. We need
more detail! Also what is the size of it???
Next is the resembellence to earth spiders... could this have 10 legs?
6 legs?7 even... why does an eathly spider live on an alien planet? I
love the idea, and i will keep the concept, but maybe we could
alienate it a bit? Make it different? Also we ned to fill in a
character sheet for every alien, where it lives, nd why does he live
there. Then we need to adapt the alien to the needs he need in such an
environment.
Alot of the same stuff for both aliens, but first of all i would need
to think of the logics of the alien before making them. I like the
concepts, but this is not finished models.
I want as many replies as possible, at least from the creators of the
aliens, and please feel free to comment on every one of the questions
i asked here, i asked alot of them, because i want answers to produce
the final and optimised versions ;)
Greetings,
Anders Wisur
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Jorrit Tyberghein
2006-11-03 05:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amir Taaki
I just want to say, can't we please drop the insect only stuff? I think
general monsters would be much cooler.
You broke the rule with nastyalien. Don't be afraid to do it for the
others!!! ;) I love prehistoric creatures because they look so cool and
different to today but they are practical (in that they make sense).
Personally I think nastyalien doesn't fit CC at all. I would prefer to
keep it at least a little bit insect-like or at least creatures that
you can imagine coming out of eggs/cocoons.

Greetings,
--
Project Manager of Crystal Space (http://www.crystalspace3d.org)
and CEL (http://cel.crystalspace3d.org)
Support Crystal Space. Donate at
https://sourceforge.net/donate/index.php?group_id=649
Anders Wisur
2006-11-04 10:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jorrit Tyberghein
Post by Amir Taaki
I just want to say, can't we please drop the insect only stuff? I think
general monsters would be much cooler.
You broke the rule with nastyalien. Don't be afraid to do it for the
others!!! ;) I love prehistoric creatures because they look so cool and
different to today but they are practical (in that they make sense).
Personally I think nastyalien doesn't fit CC at all. I would prefer to
keep it at least a little bit insect-like or at least creatures that
you can imagine coming out of eggs/cocoons.
I really disagree, i love the alien, as it looks really alien, and not
earthly a all, the insec theme is not _that_ important i think, as we
can have several stages, butterflies, and such does start from
cocoons, also we have crocodiles, they start from eggs. So maybe we
can have this alien as a second stage alien? After it has gone threw a
process? Anyone seen the movie "Evolution"? That, I think, is a very
good movie for CC aliens.

Greetings,
Post by Jorrit Tyberghein
Greetings,
--
Project Manager of Crystal Space (http://www.crystalspace3d.org)
and CEL (http://cel.crystalspace3d.org)
Support Crystal Space. Donate at
https://sourceforge.net/donate/index.php?group_id=649
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Amir Taaki
2006-11-04 14:08:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anders Wisur
Post by Jorrit Tyberghein
Post by Amir Taaki
I just want to say, can't we please drop the insect only stuff? I think
general monsters would be much cooler.
You broke the rule with nastyalien. Don't be afraid to do it for the
others!!! ;) I love prehistoric creatures because they look so cool and
different to today but they are practical (in that they make sense).
Personally I think nastyalien doesn't fit CC at all. I would prefer to
keep it at least a little bit insect-like or at least creatures that
you can imagine coming out of eggs/cocoons.
I really disagree, i love the alien, as it looks really alien, and not
earthly a all, the insec theme is not _that_ important i think, as we
can have several stages, butterflies, and such does start from
cocoons, also we have crocodiles, they start from eggs. So maybe we
can have this alien as a second stage alien? After it has gone threw a
process? Anyone seen the movie "Evolution"? That, I think, is a very
good movie for CC aliens.
Yes, I've seen evolution- the one with the apes and everything ;)

Basically I think the best thing to look at is Star Craft and the Zerg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zerg
And also Star Trek and the Borg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek)

The Zerg were creature that assimilated their entire planets species into a
master race. This is how I would see an ultimate race as being composed as
many different integrated species. The premise would go that the planet would
have some sort of outside species (Lynir?) and through a collective they are
able to survive, hence their evolution went towards this direction.

Termites are particularly interesting as they are cockroaches that have
managed to evolve into a cooperative system. Reading up on them too is also a
good idea.
Post by Anders Wisur
Greetings,
Post by Jorrit Tyberghein
Greetings,
--
Project Manager of Crystal Space (http://www.crystalspace3d.org)
and CEL (http://cel.crystalspace3d.org)
Support Crystal Space. Donate at
https://sourceforge.net/donate/index.php?group_id=649
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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